It is shown that the correlation integrals (invariants) play an important, and at certain conditions a dominant, role in helical isotropic homogeneous turbulence both in the inertial and near-dissipation ranges. Results of direct numerical simulations and recent laboratory experiments with multiscale grids have been used for this purpose. A possibility of spontaneous breaking of reflection symmetry has been also briefly discussed in this context.
In isotropic helical turbulence, a new single helical model is suggested for large eddy simulation. Based on the Kolmogrov's hypotheses, the helical model is proposed according to the balance of helicity dissipation and the average of helicity flux across the inertial range, and the helical model is a kind of eddy viscosity model. The coefficient of the helical model is constant and can be also determined dynamically. Numerical simulations of forced and decaying isotropic helical turbulence demonstrate that the helical model predicts the energy and helicity evolution well. The statistical char…
For helical isotropic turbulence, an improved two-term helical subgrid-scale (SGS) model is proposed and four types of dynamic methods are given to do large-eddy simulation (LES), which include the standard dynamic procedure, the least quatratic sum dynamic procedure, the dynamic procedure with single con- straint of helicity dissipation and the dynamic one with dual constraints of energy and helicity dissipation. Tested a priori and a posteriori in both steady and decaying helical isotropic turbulence, the four types of dynamic helical models and the dynamic Smogorinsky model are compared wit…
Using results of laboratory experiments, direct numerical simulations, geomagnetic and solar observations, it is shown that high moments of helicity distribution can dominate power spectra of the magnetic field generated by the magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) dynamo in swirling turbulence even for the cases with zero global helicity. The notion of helical distributed chaos has been used for this purpose.
Following the exact decomposition in eigenstates of helicity for the Navier-Stokes equations in Fourier space [F. Waleffe, Phys. Fluids A 4, 350 (1992)] we introduce a modified version of helical shell models for turbulence with non-local triadic interactions. By using both an analytical argument and numerical simulation, we show that there exists a class of models, with a specific helical structure, that exhibits a statistically stable inverse energy cascade, in close analogy with that predicted for the Navier-Stokes equations restricted to the same helical interactions. We further support th…
To elucidate the influence of shear flow on the generation of magnetic field (the dynamo effect), we study the kinematic limit where the magnetic field does not backreact on the velocity field. By non-perturbatively incorporating the effect of shear in a helically forced turbulence, we show that turbulence intensity and turbulent transport coefficients (turbulent viscosity, $α$ and $β$ effect) are enhanced by a weak shear while strongly suppressed for strong shear. In particular, $β$ is shown to be much more strongly suppressed than $α$ effect. We discuss its important implications for dynamo …
While in classical turbulence helicity depletes nonlinearity and can alter the evolution of turbulent flows, in quantum turbulence its role is not fully understood. We present numerical simulations of the free decay of a helical quantum turbulent flow using the Gross-Pitaevskii equation at high spatial resolution. The evolution has remarkable similarities with classical flows, which go as far as displaying a dual transfer of incompressible kinetic energy and helicity to small scales. Spatio-temporal analysis indicates that both quantities are dissipated at small scales through non-linear excit…
Using direct numerical simulation of hydrodynamic turbulence with helicity forcing applied at all scales, a near-maximum helical turbulent state is obtained, with an inverse energy cascade at scales larger than the energy forcing scale and a forward helicity cascade at scales smaller than the energy forcing scale. In contrast to previous studies using decimated triads, our simulations contain all possible triads. By computing the shell-to-shell energy fluxes, we show that the inverse energy cascade results from weakly non-local interactions among homochiral triads. Varying the helicity injecti…
The role of the moments of helicity distribution in rotating turbulence has been studied using the notion of helical distributed chaos. Results of the direct numerical simulations, laboratory experiments and geophysical observations have been used in this investigation. It is shown, in particular, that even for the cases when the global helicity is equal to zero at least even moments are usually non-zero (due to the appearance of the local spatial regions with strong negative and positive helicity) and can play a significant role in the rotating turbulence as adiabatic invariants. Rotating buo…
We perform a study on the evolution of helical quantum turbulence at different temperatures by solving numerically the Gross-Pitaevskii and the Stochastic Ginzburg-Landau equations, using up to $4096^3$ grid points with a pseudospectral method. We show that for temperatures close to the critical the fluid described by these equations can act as a classical viscous flow, with the decay of the incompressible kinetic energy and the helicity becoming exponential. The transition from this behavior to the one observed at zero temperature is smooth as a function of temperature. Moreover, the presence…
We analyze the isotropic component of turbulent flows spanning a broad range of Reynolds numbers. The aim is to identify scaling laws and their Reynolds number dependence in flows under different mechanical forcings. To this end, we applied an SO(3) decomposition to data stemming from direct numerical simulations with spatial resolutions ranging from 64^3 to 1024^3 grid points, and studied the scaling of high order moments of the velocity field. The study was carried out for two different flows obtained forcing the system with a Taylor-Green vortex or the Arn'old-Beltrami-Childress flow. Our r…
A decomposition of the energy and helicity fluxes in a turbulent hydrodynamic flow is proposed. The decomposition is based on the projection of the flow to a helical basis that allows to investigate separately the role of interactions among modes of different helicity. The proposed formalism is then applied in large scale numerical simulations of a non-helical and a helical flow, where the decomposed fluxes are explicitly calculated. It is shown that the total energy flux can be split in to three fluxes that independently remain constant in the inertial range. One of these fluxes that correspo…
We study the effect of large-scale spectral forcing on the scale-dependent anisotropy of the velocity field in direct numerical simulations of homogeneous incompressible turbulence. Two forcing methods are considered: the steady ABC single wavenumber scheme and the unsteady non-helical or helical Euler scheme. The results are also compared with high resolution data obtained with the negative viscosity scheme. A fine-grained characterization of anisotropy, consisting in measuring some quantities related to the two-point velocity correlations, is used: we perform a modal decomposition of the spe…
Recent numerical simulations have shown the strong impact of helicity on \ADD{homogeneous} rotating hydrodynamic turbulence. The main effect can be summarized through the following law, $n+\tilde n = -4$, where $n$ and $\tilde n$ are respectively the power law indices of the one-dimensional energy and helicity spectra. We investigate this rotating turbulence problem in the small Rossby number limit by using the asymptotic weak turbulence theory derived previously. We show that the empirical law is an exact solution of the helicity equation where the power law indices correspond to perpendicula…
The conventional approach to the turbulent energy cascade, based on Richardson-Kolmogorov phenomenology, ignores the topology of emerging vortices, which is related to the helicity of the turbulent flow. It is generally believed that helicity can play a significant role in turbulent systems, e.g., supporting the generation of large-scale magnetic fields, but its impact on the energy cascade to small scales has never been observed. We suggest for the first time a generalized phenomenology for isotropic turbulence with an arbitrary spectral distribution of the helicity. We discuss various scenar…
We use direct numerical simulations to compute structure functions, scaling exponents, probability density functions and turbulent transport coefficients of passive scalars in turbulent rotating helical and non-helical flows. We show that helicity affects the inertial range scaling of the velocity and of the passive scalar when rotation is present, with a spectral law consistent with $\sim k_{\perp}^{-1.4}$ for the passive scalar variance spectrum. This scaling law is consistent with the phenomenological argument presented in \cite{imazio2011} for rotating non-helical flows, wich states that i…
Ideas and theories of turbulence based on modifying the Navier-Stokes equation, to obtain equilibrium and non-equilibrium time-reversible dynamical ensembles relevant to helical turbulence, are presented. Discussions of controlling helicity to control the aerodynamic force, heat and noise are presented, together with the compressible turbulence relevant statistical mechanics analysis. A helical time-reversible system for nonequilibrium dynamical ensemble is constructed. Applications are also remarked.
Shell models of turbulence have a finite-time blowup in the inviscid limit, i.e., the enstrophy diverges while the single-shell velocities stay finite. The signature of this blowup is represented by self-similar instantonic structures traveling coherently through the inertial range. These solutions might influence the energy transfer and the anomalous scaling properties empirically observed for the forced and viscous models. In this paper we present a study of the instantonic solutions for a set of four shell models of turbulence based on the exact decomposition of the Navier-Stokes equations …
The dynamics of two-dimensional three-component (2D3C) flows is relevant to describe the long-time evolution of strongly rotating flows and/or of conducting fluids with a strong mean magnetic field. We show that in the presence of a strong helical forcing, the out-of-plane component ceases to behave as a passive advected quantity and develops a nontrivial dynamics which deeply changes its large-scale properties. We show that a small-scale helicity injection correlates the input on the 2D component with the one on the out-of-plane component. As a result, the third component develops a non-trivi…
Invariance properties of physical systems govern their behavior: energy conservation in turbulence drives a wide distribution of energy among modes, observed in geophysical or astrophysical flows. In ideal hydrodynamics, the role of helicity conservation (correlation between velocity and its curl, measuring departures from mirror symmetry) remains unclear since it does not alter the energy spectrum. However, with solid body rotation, significant differences emerge between helical and non-helical flows. We first outline several results, like the energy and helicity spectral distribution and the…
We solve the Navier-Stokes equations with two simultaneous forcings. One forcing is applied at a given large-scale and it injects energy. The other forcing is applied at all scales belonging to the inertial range and it injects helicity. In this way we can vary the degree of turbulence helicity from non helical to maximally helical. We find that increasing the rate of helicity injection does not change the energy flux. On the other hand the level of total energy is strongly increased and the energy spectrum gets steeper. The energy spectrum spans from a Kolmogorov scaling law $k^{-5/3}$ for a …
The present paper deals with the study of spectral properties of the helical mode of uniform isotropic turbulence in the presence and in the absence of mean helicity. It is shown that even in the absence of mean helicity, the helicity of individual helical modes affects the spectral behavior of turbulence. Besides, it is shown that both in the presence and in the absence of mean helicity, intermediate characteristic scales connected with the presence of helicity in helical modes should exist. The existence of these scales makes it possible to solve the problem of helicity dissipation divergenc…
Based on the Karman-Howarth equation in 3D incompressible fluid, a new isotropic turbulence scale evolution equation and its related theory progress. The present results indicate that the energy cascading process has remarkable similarities with the determinisitic construction rules of the isotonic oscillators in quantum mechanics.
In this paper, we study a new type of large-scale instability in obliquely rotating stratified fluids with small scale non-helical turbulence. The small-scale turbulence is generated by the external force with zero helicity and low Reynolds number. The theory uses the method of multiscale asymptotic developments. The nonlinear equations for large scale motions are obtained in the third order of the perturbation theory. In this paper, we consider the linear instability and the stationary nonlinear modes. We obtain solutions in the form of nonlinear Beltrami waves and localized vortex structures…
Turbulent ship wake conservation at a long distance is one of unsolved problems at present. It is well known that wakes have a rotational structure and slowly expand with distance. Nevertheless, experimental data on their structure and properties are not sufficient. On the other hand, these experimental data show that the divergence of wakes does not change according to the law 1/5, as predicted by the theory. In our work we study the effect of helicity on the parameters of a turbulent ship wake. Taking into account the helical nature of the wake, we can clarify the difference between turbulen…
We present numerical and theoretical results concerning the properties of turbulent flows with strong multi-scale helical injection. We perform direct numerical simulations of the Navier-Stokes equations under a random helical stirring with power-law spectrum and with different intensities of energy and helicity injections. We show that there exists three different regimes where the forward energy and helicity inertial transfers are: (i) both leading with respect to the external injections, (ii) energy transfer is leading and helicity transfer is sub-leading and (iii) both are sub-leading and …
Helicity, a measure of the breakage of reflectional symmetry representing the topology of turbulent flows, contributes in a crucial way to their dynamics and to their fundamental statistical properties. We review several of their main features, both new and old, as the discovery of bi-directional cascades or the role of helical vortices in the enhancement of large-scale magnetic fields in the dynamo problem. The dynamical contribution in magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) of the cross-correlation between velocity and induction is discussed as well. We consider next how turbulent transport is affected b…
We study the intermittency properties of the energy and helicity cascades in two 1536^3 direct numerical simulations of helical rotating turbulence. Symmetric and anti-symmetric velocity increments are examined, as well as probability density functions of the velocity field and of the helicity density. It is found that the direct cascade of energy to small scales is scale invariant and non-intermittent, whereas the direct cascade of helicity is highly intermittent. Furthermore, the study of structure functions of different orders allows us to identify a recovery of isotropy of strong events at…
In this paper we study the enstrophy transers in helical turbulence using direct numerical simulation. We observe that the helicity injection does not have significant effects on the inertial-range energy and helicity spectra ($\sim k^{-5/3}$) and fluxes (constants). We also calculate the separate contributions to enstrophy transfers via velocity to vorticity and vorticity to vorticity channels. There are four different enstrophy fluxes associated with the former channel or vorticity stretching, and one flux associated with the latter channel or vorticity advection. In the inertial range, the …
This article accompanies the submission of a fluid dynamics video (entry 102248) of inertial cloud droplet clustering in isotropic turbulence for the Gallery of Fluid Motion of the 66th Annual Meeting of the American Physical Society, Division of Fluid Dynamics.
We show that helical turbulence produced during a first-order phase transition generates circularly polarized cosmological gravitational waves (GWs). The characteristic frequency of these GWs for an extreme case of the phase transition model is around $10^{-3}$ --- $10^{-2}$ Hz with an energy density parameter as high as $10^{-12}$ --- $10^{-11}$. The possibility of detection is briefly discussed.
A new form of the well known Lin equation for the energy balance in isotropic turbulence is given which takes account of the filtered-partitioned transfer spectra which were used to resolve the scale paradox. It is argued that this new formulation provides a new starting point for both theoretical and numerical methods which may lead to a better understanding of the underlying energy processes in turbulence.
Drift of interfaces in forced stably-stratified turbulence and the role of vertically-sheared helical structures
Department of Physics & INFN, University of Rome “Tor Vergata”(罗马第二大学物理系及意大利国家核物理研究所);INFN Sezione di Lecce(意大利国家核物理研究所莱切分部);CNR NANOTEC(意大利国家研究委员会纳米技术研究所)
We conduct a careful analysis of the data provided by Krogstad & Davidson (2011) and show that their data do not support their conclusions. According to their published data, their decaying approximately homogeneous isotropic turbulent flows are, invariably, clearly different from Saffman turbulence; and very clearly marked differences exist between the far downstream turbulence behaviors generated by their conventional grid and by their multiscale cross grids.
The effects of Reynolds number and Stokes number on particle-pair relative velocity (RV) were investigated systematically using a recently developed planar four-frame particle tracking technique in a novel homogeneous and isotropic turbulence chamber.
We show that in decaying hydromagnetic turbulence with initial kinetic helicity, a weak magnetic field eventually becomes fully helical. The sign of magnetic helicity is opposite to that of the kinetic helicity - regardless of whether or not the initial magnetic field was helical. The magnetic field undergoes inverse cascading with the magnetic energy decaying approximately like t^{-1/2}. This is even slower than in the fully helical case, where it decays like t^{-2/3}. In this parameter range, the product of magnetic energy and correlation length raised to a certain power slightly larger than…
Using fluctuating hydrodynamics we investigate the effect of thermal fluctuations in the dissipation range of homogeneous, isotropic turbulence. Simulations confirm theoretical predictions that the energy spectrum is dominated by these fluctuations at length scales comparable to the Kolmogorov length. We also find that the extreme intermittency in the far-dissipation range predicted by Kraichnan is replaced by Gaussian thermal equipartition.
Decaying three-dimensional (3D) turbulence is studied via direct numerical simulations (DNS) for an isotropic non-rotating flow and for rotating flows with and without helicity. We analyze the cases of moderate Rossby number and large Reynolds number focusing on the behavior of the energy spectrum at large scales and studying its effect on the time evolution of the energy and integral scales for $E(k) \sim k^4$ initial conditions. In the non-rotating case we observe the classical energy decay rate $t^{-10/7}$ and a growth of the integral length proportional to $t^{2/7}$ in agreement with the p…
We investigate analytically the amplification of a weak magnetic field in a homogeneous and isotropic turbulent flow lacking reflectional symmetry (helical turbulence). We propose that the spectral distributions of magnetic energy and magnetic helicity can be found as eigenmodes of a self-adjoint, Schrödinger-type system of evolution equations. We argue that large-scale and small-scale magnetic fluctuations cannot be effectively separated, and that the conventional alpha-model is, in general, not an adequate description of the large-scale dynamo mechanism. As a consequence, the correct numeric…
The role of the different helical components of the magnetic and velocity fields in the inverse spectral transfer of magnetic helicity is investigated through Fourier shell-to-shell transfer analysis. Both magnetic helicity and energetic transfer analysis are performed on chosen data from direct numerical simulations of homogeneous isothermal compressible magnetohydrodynamic turbulence, subject to both a large-scale mechanical forcing and a small-scale helical electromotive driving. The root mean square Mach number of the hydrodynamic turbulent steady-state taken as initial condition varies fr…
We present results from two 1536^3 direct numerical simulations of rotating turbulence where both energy and helicity are injected into the flow by an external forcing. The dual cascade of energy and helicity towards smaller scales observed in isotropic and homogeneous turbulence is broken in the presence of rotation, with the development of an inverse cascade of energy now coexisting with direct cascades of energy and helicity. In the direct cascade range, the flux of helicity dominates over that of energy at low Rossby number. These cascades have several consequences for the statistics of th…
It is shown that the distributed chaos in the simple Hamiltonian (conservative) dynamical systems, such as the Nose-Hoover oscillator and double oscillator, can mimic the distributed chaos in the isotropic homogeneous turbulence. Direct numerical simulations with the classic Toda lattice and with the nonlinear Schrödinger equation (soliton turbulence) under random initial conditions have been also discussed in this context. These properties of the distributed chaos have been related to analytical properties of the Hamiltonian systems. Decrease of the smoothness results in the power-law spectra…
Temporal decorrelations in compressible isotropic turbulence are studied using the space-time correlation theory and direct numerical simulation. A swept-wave model is developed for dilatational components while the classic random sweeping model is proposed for solenoidal components. The swept-wave model shows that the temporal decorrelations in dilatational fluctuations are dominated by two physical processes: random sweeping and wave propagation. These models are supported by the direct numerical simulation of compressible isotropic turbulence, in the sense of that all curves of normalized t…
We study the statistical properties of helicity in direct numerical simulations of fully developed homogeneous and isotropic turbulence and in a class of turbulence shell models. We consider correlation functions based on combinations of vorticity and velocity increments that are not invariant under mirror symmetry. We also study the scaling properties of high-order structure functions based on the moments of the velocity increments projected on a subset of modes with either positive or negative helicity (chirality). We show that mirror symmetry is recovered at small-scales, i.e., chiral terms…
The streamwise and transverse velocities are measured simultaneously in grid turbulence at Reynolds numbers 100-300. We extract typical intermittency patterns, which are consistent with velocity profiles of Burgers and Lamb-Oseen vortices. The radii of these vortex tubes are estimated to be several of the Kolmogorov length.
We present numerical evidence of how three-dimensionalization occurs at small scale in rotating turbulence with Beltrami (ABC) forcing, creating helical flow. The Zeman scale $\ell_Ω$ at which the inertial and eddy turn-over times are equal is more than one order of magnitude larger than the dissipation scale, with the relevant domains (large-scale inverse cascade of energy, dual regime in the direct cascade of energy $E$ and helicity $H$, and dissipation) each moderately resolved. These results stem from the analysis of a large direct numerical simulation on a grid of $3072^3$ points, with Ro…
We consider equilibrium statistics for high Reynolds number isotropic turbulence in an incompressible flow driven by steady forcing at the largest scale. Motivated by shell model observations, we develop a similarity theory for the inertial range from clearly stated assumptions. In the right variables, the theory is scaling invariant, but in traditional variables it shows anomalous scaling. We obtain the underlying probability density function, the scaling exponents, and the coefficients for the structure functions. An inertial range length scale also emerges.
The assumption of similarity and self-preservation, which permits an analytical determination of the energy decay in isotropic turbulence, has played an important role in the development of turbulence theory for more than half a century. Sedov (1944), who first found an ingenious way to obtain two equations from one. Nonethless, it appears that this problem has never been reinvestigated in depth subsequent to this earlier work. In the present paper, such an analysis is carried out, yielding a much more complete picture of self-preservation isotropic turbulence. Based on these exact solutions, …
We present a numerical study of the statistical properties of three-dimensional dissipative turbulent flows at scales larger than the forcing scale. Our results indicate that the large scale flow can be described to a large degree by the truncated Euler equations with the predictions of the zero flux solutions given by absolute equilibrium theory, both for helical and non-helical flows. Thus, the functional shape of the large scale spectra can be predicted provided that scales sufficiently larger than the forcing length scale but also sufficiently smaller than the box size are examined. Deviat…
This paper is the forth part of our series of work, is devoted to the analysis on the multiscales and cascade aspects of the statistical theory of isotropic turbulence based on the new Sedov-type solution. In this paper, we use the explicit map method to analyse the nonlinear dynamical behaviour for cascade in isotorpic turbulence. This deductive scale analysis is shown to provide the first visual evidence of the celebrated Richardson cascade, and reveals in partcular its multiscale character. The results also indicate that the energy cascading process has remarkable similarities with the dete…
The radial relative velocity between particles suspended in turbulent flow plays a critical role in droplet collision and growth. We present a simple and accurate approach to RV measurement in isotropic turbulence - planar 4-frame particle tracking velocimetry - using routine PIV hardware. This study demonstrates the feasibility of accurately measuring RV using routine hardware and verifies, for the first time, the path-history and inertial filtering effects on particle-pair RV at large particle separations experimentally.
The recent development of a statistical model for incompressible Navier-Stokes (NS) fluids based on inverse kinetic theory (IKT, 2004-2008) poses the problem of searching for particular realizations of the theory which may be relevant for \textit{the statistical description of turbulence} and in particular for the so-called \textit{homogeneous, isotropic}and \textit{stationary} turbulence (HIST). Here the problem is set in terms of the $1-$point velocity probability density function (PDF) which determines a complete IKT-statistical model for NS fluids. This raises the interesting question of i…
Direct numerical simulation is used to investigate the decay exponent of isotropic homogeneous turbulence over a range of Reynolds numbers sufficient to display both high and low Re number decay behavior. The initial turbulence is generated by the stirring action of the flow past many small randomly placed cubes. Stirring occurs at 1/30th of the simulation domain size so that the low-wavenumber and large scale behavior of the turbulent spectrum is generated by the fluid and is not imposed. It is shown that the decay exponent in the resulting turbulence closely matches the theoretical predictio…
We use the recently developed Macroscopic Forcing Method [Mani and Park, Physical Review Fluids, 6:054607, 2021] to compute the scale-dependent eddy diffusivity characterizing ensemble-averaged scalar and momentum transport in incompressible homogeneous isotropic turbulence. For scales larger than the energy containing eddies, eddy diffusivity is found to be constant and consistent with the Boussinesq approximation. However for small scales eddy diffusivity is found to vanish inversely proportional to the wavenumber. Behavior at all scales is reasonably captured by a non-local eddy diffusivity…
An improved understanding of turbulence is essential for the effective modelling and control of industrial and geophysical processes. Homogeneous, isotropic turbulence (HIT) is the archetypal field for developing turbulence physics theory. Based on the Schur transform, we introduce an additive decomposition of the velocity gradient tensor into a normal part (containing the eigenvalues) and a non-normal or shear-related tensor. We re-interrogate some key properties of HIT and show that the the tendency of the flow to form disc-like structures is not a property of the normal tensor; it emerges f…
Small scale characteristics of turbulence such as velocity gradients and vorticity fluctuate rapidly in magnitude and oscillate in sign. Much work exists on the characterization of magnitude variations, but far less on sign oscillations. While averages performed on large scales tend to zero because of the oscillatory character, those performed on increasingly smaller scales will vary with the averaging scale in some characteristic way. This characteristic variation at high Reynolds numbers is captured by the so-called cancellation exponent, which measures how local averages tend to cancel out …
We present the most extensive direct numerical simulations, attempted so far, of statistically steady, homogeneous, isotropic turbulence in two-dimensional fluid films with air-drag-induced friction and with polymer additives. Our study reveals that the polymers (a) reduce the total fluid energy, enstrophy, and palinstrophy, (b) modify the fluid energy spectrum both in inverse- and forward-cascade regimes, (c) reduce small-scale intermittency, (d) suppress regions of large vorticity and strain rate, and (e) stretch in strain-dominated regions. We compare our results with earlier experimental s…
We show by direct numerical simulation (DNS) that the Lagrangian cross correlation of velocity gradients in homogeneous isotropic turbulence increases at short times, whereas its auto-correlation decreases. Kinematic considerations allow to show that two invariants of the turbulent velocity field determine the short-time velocity gradient correlations. In order to get a more intuitive understanding of the dynamics for longer times, heuristic models are proposed involving the combined action of local shear and rotation. These models quantitatively reproduce the effects and disentangle the diffe…